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Author Topic: 13th LHR DCM  (Read 5952 times)
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« on: 15 September 2011, 03:56:05 pm »

stevebecker
Veteran Forum Member
 


1835 Posts   Posted - 16/08/2003 :  11:55:58 AM 
Doug,
Can you confirm your referance to the award of the DCM to James O'Callaghan 517 13th LHR.

I can find no such award?

I did find an award of the DCM to Brian Hugh Cavanagh 517 TMB.

Did he relist under another name or is this just a mistake?

Thanks for any insight

S.B

Michael Thompson
Forum Member


Australia
33 Posts    Posted - 16/08/2003 :  8:07:55 PM 
steve,
517 sgt.James O'Callaghan DCM
DCM- Flanders September 1917 (3 oct 1917)
During the operations south-east of Ypres on September 20th, 1917, this NCO did fine work while on patrol. He proved himself a daring and capable leader and showed a total disregard for his safety under heavy enemy shell fire. He led his party through the barrage as far as Carlisle Farm and bought back correct dispositions of troops then uncertain. He also patrolled towards Cameron House and sent back information that the enemy were massing for an attack in that vicinity. Sgt O'Callaghan's conduct was exemplary thoughout and was marked by great coolness and confidence thus acting as a fine examlpe to those under him.

Source Doug Hunter's book My Corps Cavalry

stevebecker
Veteran Forum Member
 


1835 Posts    Posted - 17/08/2003 :  09:04:37 AM 
Yes I read with interest this in Doug's book that is why I asked the question.
The only O'Callaghan to be award a decoration in the 13th LH was shown as John O'Callaghan 4930 and that a Military Medal (MM).

This name appears again in the AWM site both AIF Nominal roll and decorations parts which show only a MM.

Could this be the same man?

Did he relist?

I wonder

S.B

Glyn
Advanced Forum Member
 

Australia
234 Posts    Posted - 17/08/2003 :  8:44:20 PM 
Sue,
I have had a bit of a look at my usual references and I can only find similar listings for O'Callaghan. The links are below

http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/honours_list/resultDetail.cfm?awardsID=1076741

http://www.awm.gov.au/database/h_award.asp

I haven't had a look at the NAA site, is your chap listed there?

Glyn

stevebecker
Veteran Forum Member
 


1835 Posts    Posted - 18/08/2003 :  11:03:21 AM 
Yes Glyn,
Checked the ANA site but no luck.

James O'Callaghan 517 is not listed in the AWM nominal roll but John 4930 is.

Maybe he did relist, and Doug got the name or madal wrong?

I figure I'll have to keep looking.

S.B

Cuddy
Forum Member


Australia
39 Posts    Posted - 18/08/2003 :  1:44:29 PM 
Quote
Sue,
I have had a bit of a look at my usual references and I can only find similar listings for O'Callaghan. The links are below

http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/honours_list/resultDetail.cfm?awardsID=1076741

http://www.awm.gov.au/database/h_award.asp

I haven't had a look at the NAA site, is your chap listed there?

Glyn

Cuddy
Forum Member


Australia
39 Posts    Posted - 18/08/2003 :  1:48:09 PM 
JUst a bit confused re soldiers re enlistoing..does that cause problems when tracing them.?my Grndfth does not appear on the awards list either(MM WW1)if I looked correctly...he did though reenlist for ww2 so would that alter things..?Thanks Cuddy
stevebecker
Veteran Forum Member
 


1835 Posts    Posted - 18/08/2003 :  4:32:25 PM 
Mate,
Soldiers were returned early to Australia for any number of reasons.

These included wounding, sickness, age, disiplane or end of service.

Once back at home the soldier would be either discharged or admitted to hosp, then once fit sent back to his unit by reembarking with either a Reenforcement or another unit.

Those discharged can try to relist, this can be done by using your own name or some other.

You would be given another number on relistment an as such would be on the AIF nominal roll as it only records those soldiers on the records at the end of the war.

I have soldiers who relisted up to five times during the war under a number of names.

S.B


Doug Hunter
Forum Member


Australia
30 Posts    Posted - 22/08/2003 :  08:16:41 AM 
Interesting Steve, I will go back through my notes re O Callaghan. On the same subject there is one award I missed: 1036 Sgt RJ Scott awarded a MM. Citation: For conspicious gallantry and devotion to duty on the night of 20 Sep 1917, during the operations south east of Ypres. This NCO was engeged on patrol duty and was given certain definite tasks to perform, which he accomplished most successfully despits heavy enemy shelling and machine gun fire. He showed great skill and fearlessness in handling his patrol, and was able to obtain and send back to Divisional headquarters much valuable information.
Thanks
Doug Hunter
stevebecker
Veteran Forum Member
 


1835 Posts    Posted - 23/08/2003 :  10:00:29 AM 
Doug,
While your looking at O'Callaghan, can you also confirm the award of the DCM to Charles Willis Pappin 531 shown as L/Cpl 13 LHR in your book.

This awarded is also not in the books, I can not find any award to this man?

I also have some additions and such of the 13th LHR but as I am only up to the "P's" and I can give you an update when I finish this LH nominal roll off.

S.B

Doug Hunter
Forum Member


Australia
30 Posts    Posted - 27/08/2003 :  9:03:13 PM 
Steve,
Re O'Callaghan: my information came from an entry in AWM 28 1st Anzac Corps HQ and Corps Troops. The entry cited '517 Sgt James O'Callaghan' for a DCM. It is possible the award was reduced to MM higher up. Have you seen the Gazette? It seems that happen often. Sgt D Fletcher is an example where a DCM recommendation at Bapaume was not recognised at all. Re the regt no: the Embarkation Roll for 13th LH is clear 517. 4930 sounds impossible as he was an original member of B Sqn. Regt nos of originals numbered less than 600. Numbers for the last reinforcements were far less than 3000, so 4930 seems out of the question. Re 'John': The Embarkation does not list a Christian name. RJ Scott in a letter makes reference to Jack O'Callaghan. Re enl date: Nominal roll says 1.6.15. Emb roll says 6.1.15 and sailed on "Persic 28.5.15 so Nom roll is wrong on two counts. I will try to see his service record when next in ACT.
Regards. (Will reply on Pappin later)
Doug
stevebecker
Veteran Forum Member
 


1835 Posts    Posted - 28/08/2003 :  09:33:01 AM 
Great work mate,
Yes I've shaw your right in that he was most posively recommanded for the DCM but was only awarded MM.

I've seen this so many times. The best is when awards are up graded.

I am not sure why the difference in names on the AIF nom roll, but if he did relist (he would get a new number) and latter returned to the 13 LHR in France then this would make sence. As for the names John and James this could be just a clerk getting it wrong?

I have a number of John's called Jack's and so on.

Thanks for the info

S.B

Doug Hunter
Forum Member


Australia
30 Posts    Posted - 01/01/2004 :  3:22:53 PM 
Steve, I've been out of action for some months but hopefully will be able to catch up on things again.
Re James O'Callaghan. I was just reading a copy of R J Scott's citation and noted on the bottom of the document "Other M.M. awarded to 13 A.L.H Tpr Thomas Graham, Skipper King, Colin Mckay, James O'Callaghan"
So it is further evidence his first name was James but that he was awarded an MM not DCM. I have amended my copy accordingly.
Still no info on Pappin.
Doug
stevebecker
Veteran Forum Member
 


1835 Posts    Posted - 01/01/2004 :  4:58:48 PM 
Thanks Mate,
Just to confuse the issue I did notice that the AWM Honors and Awards section has a problem that I had not noticed before.

That is there are a number of awards given but not mentioned in that section. Many of these awards are in the lists (Gazetted) 1919-1920 and awarded post-war.

So far I ve only found a few that fall into this but it does explane why some awards are mentioned on the AWM AIF nominal roll but are not in the AWM awards and decorations roll.

Just a throught

S.B

stevebecker
Veteran Forum Member
 


1835 Posts    Posted - 10/01/2004 :  6:42:31 PM 
Doug,
And to those who have not checked out the new part of the Honours and Decorations on the AWM webb site.

It contains most of the recommandations for awards of soldiers during WWI.

There are both recommandations for O'Callaghan, one shown as;

James O'Callaghan Sgt 4930 13 LHR DCM,
John O'Callaghan Sgt 4930 13 LHR DCM,

Of which only a MM was awarded.

Charles Willis Pappin 531 13 LHR MM is shown not DCM as recorded elsewhere.

For those to check out, but remember they are only recommandations not awards.

S.B

Bryn
Advanced Forum Member
 

Japan
397 Posts    Posted - 11/01/2004 :  11:23:56 AM 
Hi Steve, Doug,
On the recommendations part of the AWM site (http://www.awm.gov.au/database/awm28/index.asp) is this entry:


O'Callaghan , James
Service Number: 4930
Rank: Sergeant
Unit: 13th Light Horse Regiment
Award: Distinguished Service Medal
Date of Award: 03/10/1917
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