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Author Topic: 5th Light Horse Regiment  (Read 2867 times)
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« on: 15 September 2011, 07:45:55 pm »

steelo
Forum Member


New Zealand
1 Posts   Posted - 21/12/2004 :  5:58:35 PM 
I am searching for details regarding J.Small who served in the Light Horse Regiment from 11.11.1914 to 23.12.1918.
As far as I know he was awarded the MM but I have very little information regarding him.
I am helping a friend find details about him as he is her Grandfather.
Thank you.
Regards
Allan
Sunny NZ
Bryn
Advanced Forum Member
 

Japan
331 Posts    Posted - 22/12/2004 :  08:39:45 AM 
Hi Allan,
I replied to your email directly, but will answer here as well. First, thanks for alerting me that my '5th Light Horse Regiment' web site seems to have disappeared! I'm looking into this with the hosting site at the moment.


Trooper James Small was awarded the Military Medal, but the record reads: 'Deed not available'. See the following :

http://www.awm.gov.au/database/awm28/frame.asp?folder=2/139P1&page=31

I don't have much on Trooper Small, except that he was wounded on September 25 1918, that he was awarded the MM (confirmed in the unit history, though no details given), and that he was discharged on 16 Jan 1920 (though RTA in 1918). He was transferred into the 5th LHR on 2 October 1915 from the 2nd Light Horse Brigade Field Ambulance. Unfortunately he does not appear on the nominal roll of that unit, and it's possible that he joined it from yet another unit. Without his dossier from the Archives it would be hard to say.

Following is an extract from the unit history of the 5th LHR for the period covering when Trooper Small was wounded near Amman (25 Sep 1918):

****
"Before dawn on the morning of the 23rd, General Chaytor's Valley force advanced in strength from Hajla in the South (where our Brigade was) to Jisr ed Damieh in the North. The foot-hills were clear, except for scattered parties of cavalry, and by nightfall the Regiment was climbing up the Am-Es-Sir track through Kajr Mujahid. The track was so rough and narrow that the enemy by the explosion of a few mines was able to check the Brigade for some hours during the night of the 23rd. Am-Es-Sir was reached at noon on the 24th, and the Regiment was ordered to proceed to Aim Hemar and bivouac for the night. During the night orders were received that the Division would attack Amman the following morning. This Regiment led the Brigade with the New Zealanders on the left, detached posts were met and quickly overcome. Lieutenant B. R. Byrnes, with a weak troop, galloped 900 yards under machine gun and rifle-fire and attacked a position, resulting in the capture of 3 officers, 44 other ranks, 2 field guns and 2 machine guns. At the same time Lieutenant A. Currie advanced with his troop dismounted across a long stretch of exposed ground and under heavy fire. When within 80 yards of the position the white flag was raised, and as Lieutenant Currie and his men moved forward to take the surrender, the enemy reopened fire. Lieutenant Currie and all his men, except two, fell wounded, Lieutenant Currie mortally. Nevertheless, Sergeant P. Kelly with two men, one of them wounded, went on and seized the position with 33 prisoners. For this Sergt. Kelly was awarded the D.C.M. When the posts were overcome, the Regiment pushed forward to within 2,000 yards of Amman. All approaches were covered with machine gun fire, and shellfire was encountered. Gradually pressing forward, with the Canterbury Rifles on the left and the 7th Regiment on the right, the resistance collapsed, and * Squadron entered the town at 1330 (25th Sept.). At 1520 Colonel Cameron sent the following message to Brigade: “Amman all clear, am sending one squadron to occupy high ground east of town. Our casualties throughout the day were 4 officers and 14 other ranks wounded and a number of horses wounded. Thirty officers, 552 other ranks, 3 field guns, 10 machine guns, 1 Hotchkiss rifle, 1 Lewis gun, 2 motor cars, and a considerable quantity of stores and equipment were captured.” For his gallant conduct on this occasion, Lieutenant B. R. Byrnes was awarded the M.C.
With Amman in his hands General Chaytor prepared for the destruction of the enemy force-.-5,000-6,000 strong - which had for some months been defending Maan against the Arabs, 120 miles to the south. The 1st Brigade followed up the enemy's rearguard, while our Brigade was diverted south to intercept this force. “A” Squadron of this Regiment was sent on the 26th with explosives to destroy the railway near Leban, some miles south of Amman. The line was destroyed in two places and touch was gained with the enemy troops at Leban."
****

If anything else comes up I'll let you know.

Regards,

Bryn


leseme
Forum Member


Australia
49 Posts    Posted - 22/12/2004 :  11:15:55 AM 
Hi Allan
His service record did not show up when I checked the National Archives site so you will have to make a request for a copy.

If you need a hand to do this please email me.

Also, following on regarding his MM, I see that the award was gazetted in 1919 ( Feb in London Gazette and June in Commonwealth Gazette).

Good luck

Les

stevebecker
Veteran Forum Member
 


1651 Posts    Posted - 22/12/2004 :  12:29:13 PM 
Mates,
I show that James Small Embarked with the 2 LHFA and is shown as a 31 year old Horse Breaker from Brisbane Qld and NOK in Govenors Bay NZ.

I show he was attached to the 5th LHR from the 2 LHFA (as many AAMC personal were attached to LH regts during the war). His number gain an "A" and is now 523a, this would lead me to surpose he was not attached, but as mentioned by Bryn did join the 5th LHR.

The MM I have was gainned while part of the 2 LHFA having RTU from the 5th LHR but I can not confirm this as if attached to the 5th LHR then either unit could be mentioned in documents.

I'll dig into this for you to see what is going on.

S.B

Nick
Forum Member



167 Posts    Posted - 23/12/2004 :  6:52:05 PM 
Hi Steve and Bryn,
I read with interest the raising and withdrawing of the white flag. Have either of you heard of this occurring in other circumstances? It would appear to me that Lt Currie's troop are lulled into a false sense of security and take the white flag at face value. However, if it had occurred prviously, then they should have been aware of it. I'd be interested to see where this goes!

Nick

stevebecker
Veteran Forum Member
 


1651 Posts    Posted - 23/12/2004 :  7:03:49 PM 
Nick,
Mate the raising of the white flag has always been conraversal in war.

Before getting my references out can I say that any soldier who takes the showing of a white flag as surrender is a fool.

That is not to say you would disreguard any flag shown, but you should take more care before taking it at face value.

The raiseing of a flag maybe all right for the men in front of you but any defenceive line has many parts and not all maybe willing to lay down there arms. This has always been the excuse given for shooting after the flag had been raised weather its our forces or other countries.

That is not to say that the raising of said flag isn't used to trick any enemy, but as a ruse de gurre (pardon my French) could it be done and the short answer is yes. Totaly against all usages of war but yes.

S.B

Bryn
Advanced Forum Member
 

Japan
331 Posts    Posted - 24/12/2004 :  10:40:20 AM 
Hi Nick,
Two more instances, both 5th LHR:

*****
First battle of Gaza, 26th March 1917:
‘Another party of this squadron, consisting of Lieutenant Scott, Sergeant Gahan, Sergeant Hammond and Corporal Ogg, encountered in the scrub a party of Turks consisting of an officer and 15 other ranks. The Turks at once put up their hands in token of surrender, which was accepted, but seeing the numerical weakness of their captors, one of them fired at Sergeant Gahan and shot him through the body and another bayonetted Ogg through the leg. Scott and Hammond at once opened fire, the former accounting for five and the latter for one. The other nine disappeared in the scrub, but were subsequently rounded up.’ (Wilson p98).
‘Poor Sergeant Gahan met his death by treachery. He and Lieutenant Scott, Sergeant Hammond and Corporal Ogg rushed an officer with fifteen Turks who threw up their hands, but then seeing how few our men were snatched up their rifles, shot Gahan and bayonetted Ogg. Scott shot five quick and lively; Hammond got one before the rest surrendered.’ (Idriess p194) .

*******

"Another exposed ridge, known as Bald Hill, and about 700 yards in front of our position, was held with a troop (Lieutenant Ogg’s). At dawn on the 3rd the enemy advanced and attacked strongly. Our reserve squadron (“A”) then went into the line to assist the defence. The attack was repelled, and a number of the enemy (305) who had advanced so far that a machine gun from the 8th Regiment could attack them from the rear, surrendered and were just got in in time to prevent reinforcements reaching them that were coming at the double along the Amman Road.

An instance of German treachery may be here related. The Turks were holding up rags, bushes, rifles, etc., in token of surrender, and Lieutenant Wetherell then stood up and waved to them to come in. At once a concealed machine gun, manned by Germans, fired a burst at him, but miraculously did not hit him, and they then walked in with their machine gun to a different part of the line."
(Wilson p135-6).

*****

Regards,

Bryn
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